| Brian
Gray and Wendy Cowey talk with Geoff Ainsworth
Geoff Ainsworth: Can
you tell me what you mean by good teaching?
Brian Gray: Well, we
mean teaching that's very focused and really quite intensive.
When you're working in any kind of situation where the children
are coming into schools without already having the understandings
needed to succeed in that situation, you need some kind of
process that actually socialises the children into the literate
discourse that they're going to be dealing with. So that's
got to be built in across your teaching, in every single thing
you do. Good teaching is teaching that's really taking that
into account. A lot of Aboriginal kids are outside the socialisation
process that goes on in classrooms. They need to be brought
in.
Geoff:
Is that what scaffolding's all about?
Brian:
The term 'scaffolding' goes back to Bruner and others but
what we mean is just the process through which children are
given access to a discourse. Sometimes we describe it as the
normal way parents' act with kids. The parent lets the child
do whatever the child can actually achieve but supports the
child in the things that are beyond what the child can do
if left to their own resources.
They work to make all of the presumptions of the discourse
visible to the child. That's what we want to do.
Geoff:
How do you use texts in your classrooms?
Brian:
First of all, if children have a history of not being successful,
I'd say there's no point working with those children on low
level materials. They've probably been doing that for
years.
Wendy:
It seems unbelievable to some people that we say that if you've
been struggling with kids who can't get past a one sentence
a page reader, then you've got to give them harder books.
It stops people in their tracks. But we're talking about dealing
with texts in a very careful, structured way, and supporting
children all the way to read them. Whatever age they are,
kids have their own experiences and they're developing in
every aspect of their own life. And so of course a child who's
in Year 6 or 7 is not like a child in Grade 1 for example.
Very
often because they're reading at a grade 1 level there's
a perception on the part of teachers that they're like
a Grade 1 child, but of course they're not. They need to deal
with texts which are appropriate to their own age.
Geoff:
Where's the focus of the teaching?
Brian:
The focus is on the learning outcomes. It's not on forcing
the children to comply with behavioural control regimes without
any reference to teaching and learning. If you don't challenge
Aboriginal students you might be able to achieve a calm classroom,
but all you've got is a classroom where nobody learns anything.
We've seen classrooms where the teacher spends their whole
time trying to get activities that entertain the kids. For
us, behavioural control is something that actually comes when
children become task oriented.
Geoff:
So how do teachers react to that?
Brian:
Well, it's understandable when teachers are under pressure,
that they find this really hard to deal with. It's hard work
sometimes! But teachers can very easily get pushed into a
situation where they can't really do anything in the classroom
or they're just keeping children amused.
Wendy:
Another thing that teachers worry about is the notion of cultural
difference.
Sometimes they worry to the point where they are very afraid
and paralysed and unable to just communicate directly. They
think you have to bite your tongue and hold back, because
you might transgress. Then they try asking a few open-ended
questions and the Aboriginal kids don't answer, so they think,
well, Aboriginal kids can't answer these questions so it must
be against the culture. But that's rubbish! It's just that
they haven't been taught how to do it in this particular
discourse.
Of
course Aboriginal kids can succeed in school but they
have to be taught about the discourse. We do a lot of telling
and then we ask questions. Because only if you do it that
way can the kids see what you're actually talking about.
Geoff:
Can you talk a bit more about the way teachers use questioning?
Brian:
All of our language is part of a discourse and as such it's
patterned. Sometimes teachers learn in teachers' college that
the only questions to ask are open questions. You know… open
questions are good, closed questions are bad. The thinking
is that we don't want to interfere with what the children
are thinking therefore we never guide children in the interaction.
So some teachers find it really hard to move away from the
idea that they should never tell kids things. But it's fundamental
to our work that teachers must guide children.
Geoff:
So you never want teachers asking open-ended questions?
Wendy:
No, what we say is that you have to ask closed questions as
a means of teaching. Once you've had closed questions and
the children have looked closely at the text, then that allows
them to answer open questions because they then have the resources
to answer them.
What
we're making explicit is all the processes that are involved
in doing that.
Geoff:
What else do you see as important in Indigenous education?
Brian:
One important thing is that Aboriginal kids give body signals
that non-Indigenous teachers often don't understand.
Sometimes
we see classes and from the body signals you might think the
kids aren't paying attention. The teacher is talking to them
and it looks to the teacher like the kids aren't really connecting
and they haven't got a clue what's being said. They might
be looking away or looking down or playing with their hair.
But actually they are engaged.
The
teacher is then in a fairly sensitive kind of zone because
they need to learn to read this situation correctly. Trying
to make the kids sit up straight and watch you isn't the answer. |